I don't like it. I don't like it one bit.
I don't like their lifestyle. I don't like their god. I don't like their hairstyles. I don't like their clothes.
But what I don't like even more is that the anonymous call of a teenager (that may or may not be true) has--by itself--ripped hundreds of small children from their mothers' arms; wives from their husbands; and followers from their freedom. And today, our government defiled their temple.
I don't get it--why not track down and remove the alleged perpetrator?
It would be great if all this casting down of idols was happening in the name of The One True God, but we know this is America in the year 2008, and that's not what's happening.
Do you worry or wonder how this is someday going to impact your family if you're not strictly conforming to the societal line?
Edited to add: This post is attracting a fair number of google hits from searches on FLDS hairstyles...oh, I guess that stating that outright will bring in more hits on FLDS hairstyles. Oops! There, I did it again. Anyway, let me say that I have no idea how they get their hair to do that. It's quite incredible actually, but surely a mystery I can live without.
This post has also prompted a couple of concerned anonymous comments and at least one angry, emotional rebuke from a California mother who suggested she was raised in a cult. While I await her response to my inquiry about if she really wants me to post her words, let me say this: The FLDS, and the guilt or innocence of members of that following are not actually the point being made here. Sometimes viewing things through a damaged filter doesn't allow for much clarity; I'm really talking about liberty in the United States with a concern about how it will look a generation from today.
Thank you. The End.
24 comments:
I'm glad you said something... I didn't know quite how to put it into words, but I think it said it very well.
It does worry me about our future in the is country.... I'm sure we look very strange to the mainstream!
I agree, it bothers me quite a bit. That we live in the same state where all this is happening, and the leaders of our state (ie governor) doing nothing about it does kinda (well, REALLY) scare me.
Another reason to really really TRUST the ONE who holds all this even in HIS hands.
And as Christians are set to seem even stranger as we hold to what the Bible says is right - as every one else keeps heading away from that. People who don't have that constraint are going to chase their own idea of perfection, and judge us for not following.
I agree that there are many things I don't like of what I know of the FLDS group, but I am also concerned about how they are being handled by the state and the media.
Yes, I agree, GB! I made the same argument over at another sweet sister's blog. Many Americans may view our strict adherence to Scripture as something to "rescue" our children from.
I don't like a lot of what's been reported about this sect, but this is the US, and we must be ever so careful and watchful when we see these things happening.
I completely agree that taking the children away was WAY over the line. The fact that they seem determined to actually take these children away permanently just breaks my heart.
HOWEVER, I do think that it is WAY beyond time to start policing these 'compounds' better. These people ARE breaking the law and until now they've been left alone to do so, and that just isn't right. The laws we know they break--polygamy and much more importantly welfare fraud--are enforced in other areas of the country and they should be equally enforced regardless of religion.
Does that mean I think that they were justified in taking all of those children? No way. That was (and still is) a huge violation of their rights. Luckily, I think that public opinion is turning from the government here--its turning into a public relations nightmare--and I think its just a matter of time until they cave in and return the kids.
What Missy said. :)
My husband and I have talked about this very thing this week. If we seem radical enough to folks, could this happen to us? The ramifications are horrifying.
Also, I read it is costing our state $30,000 a day to shelter all these people. AACK!!!
Yes. Absolutely. Good perspective, friend. I've been praying for those children and mama's (and daddy's, too) since this all began... grace, Father. Grace.
Well said!! You put to words the rather nebulous thoughts rattling around my mind on this issue. My heart aches for the children.
While I understand what you're saying (whether or not I agree with it), I feel like the #1 concern should be making sure that no child is being abused. Day after day, more is coming to light about this group not only participating in things that most of us would consider unethical but it now appears that they've done several illegal things.
For the latter, it will obviously take more than just a few days to gather all of the evidence. In the meantime, I believe the gov't is correct to err on the side of caution by making sure that NO child is being abused.
As far as it being related to us, I believe that if there was ever a situation where there was ample evidence to suggest that a child was being abused, that becomes the main topic and priority before ANYTHING else.
Anonymous...I agree that children should be protected from abuse. The question I'm asking is who gets to decide what constitutes abuse? Teen marriage? Under-aged relations? Age disparity of spouses? Separation from the world? Religious indoctrination? Dated clothing? (I've actually heard news folks and government types alike trying to make a case and raise public sympathy against the ultra-modest clothing.)
Bad hair? Parents making unpopular decisions against technology and entertainment? No car?
What? Where are we going to draw the line so that a generation down the line we don't live in a Nazi-like, uniform conformity state?
I made a reply which didn't seem to make it onto your comment page. Interestingly 'anonymous' raised similar concerns as self. My question to you - is who do you think should make the decisions about what constitutes abuse? Do you think under - aged relations is abuse? Do you think 'that' should be considered in the same concern as choice of clothing? I am a little confused at what you are most upset about.And I do agree that there is a lot to be upset and angry about in this situation. Do you honestly think that by investigating this community (I'm assuming it was based on a little more than one 'anonymous' phone call)we are really risking becoming a a Nazi- like State? I am not saying that the right thing to do was remove all the children. However, the discussions seem to be more concerned about protecting the rights of adults - including mothers - to follow any value system they so desire. Do you believe everything was above board and Christ centered in their community and hence your fear of their rights being invaded? This is such a tricky situation. My heart aches for those mothers and fathers and children who are just trying to live a Godly life. My heart is thunderous if one child is being abused/ Is it my business? Is it anyone else's business? Let's all pray for wisdom for those who are investigating.
Glad you brought this up. It is very disturbing indeed.
I can't imagine the pain of those mothers, having children taken from their arms. But that does not excuse everything else.
I do wonder how it affects us as a whole.
I completely agree with this post. I find their lifestyle and the beliefs to be reprehensible but the control taken by the authorities scares me more.
I am also completely aware of the fact that my lifestyle may be the next one under scrutiny. They may find my homeschooling, conservative Christian beliefs to be unacceptable. What then?
Anonymous #2...it's a slippery slope. That's what I'm saying.
I pray that they (officials) will use the law and not their own ideals to seek the truth. I agree that they need to find the men in question. I have a feeling they've run like rats.
We seriously need to hold up these women and children in prayer. The media is portaying the women as criminals. I see them as victims on so many levels.
What we need now is Christians to rise up and help these families,not the government.
Wait, WHAT? I am at work and haven't heard any news, so I didn't know about the temple. Did they raid it today or something?
My personal opinion is this: The authorities should have gone after the men -- removed THEM from the compound -- place them in custody and begin prosecuting them FIRST -- while having advocates interview and possibly council the women and children.
Again -- IMO, I feel much compassion and sadness for the women. They have been mistreated, lied to, brainwashed, abused... all of that is evident. They walk and talk like zombies. But they are also afraid of "our world" in a way that none of us may have experienced.
When a woman is under the influence of an abusive and powerful man, she looses all sense of herself and reality, and is motivated by fear. To think that their eyes will suddenly be opened wide to the abuse they have endured (whether physical, emotional, mental) is unrealistic.
If it were my son, and someone came into my home and took him from me because they felt that as a Christian, I was abusing him by teaching him what I have been taught and know to be "truth" -- I think I would loose it completely and become like a wild lion. To see that these women are not reacting like this confirms in my heart that they will not recover from this easily -- especially if they are forced into mainstream (if that makes any sense).
The children -- oh, my word -- my heart just breaks for them. But to have them in strangers hands? Especially if their moms aren't the focal point of the alleged abuse? That's just wrong.
By the way -- I meant to include in my comment that the fact that the anonymous teenager hasn't been found worries me greatly.
Also -- I heard on the news that the Authorities actually have had someone in the compound undercover for the last 4 years, so ... I wonder what type of light this person might shed on everything that has happened? Did they have other evidence that motivated the authorities to act as they did?
So many questions.
I was certainly concerned about what might be going on in there. But the notion that Child Protective Services can come and take children based on an anonymous phone call is terrifying! One small phone call and dozens of families were torn apart. Who will be next? I pray all the time that God will protect us from such intrustions.
I came and read your post one evening; and then have been back and re-read it again - many thoughts going on in my head. I know where I stand on this issue so my thoughts are not of confusion - but rather a challenge to think outside the box and with forethought of the future.
Before I go on, please let me say -I frequent your blog often and love it! I too am a Christian saved by grace; and have been edified and blessed by many of your posts. I know in the future here I will continue to view your blog and be blessed. With that said, I must add - I am not sure I agree with your line of thought here. I have debated whether or not to even post my disagreement; but I keep coming back to your blog and re-reading your post. I feel I must say something. So, with graciousness, no malice, and as a Christian sister in Christ - I will post my thoughts.
Your questions was, 'Do you worry...how this is someday going to impact your family...?' Yes, from the moment this story began airing - Yes, Yes, Yes. However, I am seeing this not as the government coming in against a religion and taking away precious freedom given to us by our forefathers. I see this as twisted, unregenerate men using religion as a cloak for their sin.
I feel as separated Christians from the world, we must be careful not to declare this an infringement upon religious beliefs. There are girls the same age as yours and mine being forced into perverted relationships for the fulfillment of men's twisted and sinful desires. Our government needs to protect these children; and as Christians we need to let fear of religious rights be placed aside and view the facts.
I agreed with your views of the FLDS - I don't like those things either. However, further down you stated that our government went in and defiled their temple. May I say, their temple was defiled before a thrice holy God long before the government even knew they existed!
It is only normal for us as Christians, separated from the world and removed from its vain philosophies - to be concerned that our future rights and freedoms that we now enjoy could be taken from us someday. Whenever someone twists truth to meet their own agenda and perversion the potential is there for further backlash on anyone different. The farther our society gets from absolute Truth the more that potential is there. Yet, we must not look away from facts and truth either.
Their lifestyle and 'belief' system was warped to say the least - was not honoring to God and was used to feed the sinful lusts of men's hearts. God commands one man for one woman for their lifetime. This is truth - they were wrong. As to coming in and taking away the perpetrator - I agree with you there; but also know how the social system works. I believe in the end the children will be returned to their mothers and when evidence is gathered the guilty men will be prosecuted - at least that is what I would hope would happen.
Just my thoughts - I know a lot of my Christian friends will jump on the bandwagon of religious freedom being taken away. I just can not do this at this time. My prayers are with those kids right now as I know they are having a difficult time.
Thanks for the post - I love to be challenged in my thinking!
Blessings,
~Martie
Hi Martie...thank you for handling your dissent with such grace.
Let me say first, that you are not the first to bring to my attention that I've not made myself clear in making a statement about their "temple." As a *Christian,* I know their temple is an abomination.
But as an American whose people embrace an increasingly twisted interpretation of "Freedom of Religion," I am compelled to stand up against the slippery slope of public policy that I fear will someday tell me that my children are mistreated because they share a bedroom!
I know enough about LDS to know how sacred they view their "temple." They wear surgical shoe covers inside and only gleaming white clothing after all! So, I liken my mention of it to my previous post about the Iranian President coming to Columbia only to be publicly insulted.
I say that you can't do that and expect it to end well. That all I'm saying.
I keep thinking of this verse: "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." Mt 10:16
There will be those - that will lump us all into one barrel and say that we all are abusive - and use this issue as 'proof'. For that reason a lone, we must be cautious - we must stand and hold dear our religious freedom; that, at the hands of such people someday can be taken away. I AGREE with you 100% there. I just don't want to overlook - and I know you don't either - the gross sin that has been declared religious under false pretenses! (In other words, I think we are saying the same thing - just with two different percpectives)
Again, thank you for challanging my thinking - we must sharpen each other.
Blessings,
~Martie
When it thunderstormed the other night all I could think about was those children.
I do feel for then so much. I cry as they cry for their children on TV. I don't believe that just one call provoked this rade. They have been there for years with no action on the governments part. There are people who say that how could we have waited so long? How could we have just investigated the single call that came in? There would have been so many hurting chilren that would have fallin through the cracks. How many chilren would have we missed helping if we did it that way. Why aren't we upset at the adults here in this compound that have not protected thier children. Turning boys out on the road like they don't matter, exposing girls to (intimate relations)way before they are ready and not letting their hearts be important in this. Who are the real villians here? I think the Lord used who He could to break apart the evil that is going on there. If the Lord could physicaly walk into that compound, would he have went after that one perpetrader? He would expose the evil that is going on there and that is exactly what is happening because we have a true living God. I am praying for them and that this evil stops.
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